Wine with all its cultural and social benefits not to mention taste experiences is most certainly not just “alcohol”. It is probably the most civilising influence the world has known. The challenge it faces today is messaging this in the face of many who have other agendas including the WHO funded by neo prohibitionists. Shame on them!
I am fully on board that Wine is a cultural and gastronomic pleasure, and that denigrating it in comparison to a completely different different product is ridiculous. But I will say that there is more to cannabis than getting “fucked up”. Some of the components of cannabis are very helpful for pain and anxiety, some do not even cause euphoria.
This confrontational attitude that you are pointing out does nothing to make me want to consume more cannabis nor less wine! Nobody better try to take my wine away from me! It is one of my greatest pleasures in life! And I use cannabis, when legal, mostly for pain and anxiety management.
Haha! But my point which must have been poorly made, is that cannabis is not all about getting high. I don’t use it for that. And you are welcome to my share of Doritos! 😉
Try to touch my stash of Doritos and see what happens...Especially the "Ranch" flavored. But let's be honest, the number of folks that smoke flower or take edibles are taking them to get high. On the other hand, huge numbers of wine drinkers don't drink wine to get drunk. It's just not the same thing.
Oh no you didn’t ! This argument is fully silly. Are the elites who drink wine actually threatened by marijauna ? Are they defensive because that 50 dolllar bag of grass should have been a Jordan Cabernet ? There is so much big money tied up in grapes that everyone should just relax. No one is going broke. Your share of the alcohol industry has taken a bit of a hit of late ( no pun intended ) but I suspect large corporation multiple alcohol alternatives are more to blame.
First of all, Todd, it's not "elites" who drink wine. It's the plumber who likes the taste. It's the mother who likes the way it goes with a sunny day. It's the grads student who likes the way it goes with wine. AND, its the wine lover who tastes the wieght of culture and civilization on their tongue when they sip a Bordeaux from a well established and old chateau.
I agree "dengration [sic] marketing" is a shameless way to get what they want, but implying weed is only for "getting fucked up" is wildly out of touch and it detracts from your argument.
Weed has no cultural history? C'mon, you don't think it's been regarded as spiritual in many non-western cultures?
Nobody smokes weed at weddings? I know of a friend who had a weed-only wedding last year.
Weed only enhances dorito-flavor? You've never been comfortably high at a gourmet restaurant and it shows.
Don't fight at their level. Wine is great. Weed is great. Loosen your tie.
Thomas Jefferson said it well. “No nation is drunken where wine is cheap; and none sober, where the dearness of wine substitutes ardent spirits as the common beverage. It is, in truth, the only antidote to the bane of whiskey.”
A great quote. Would you say in some ways the flourishing of American wine culture has reduced “drunkenness” in some ways, insofar as it has flourished and refined some Americans’ tastes?
That's certainly how it is in Europe. France, Italy Spain, Portugal and Germany are wine drinking cultures. But getting soused is rarely seen and greatly discouraged.
I see. That makes sense from what I know. I wonder how wine-centric cultures impact how even hard liquor would be consumed - whether even hard liquor gets consumed more moderately by default
Wine is being challenged because of the "risk" of drinking alcoholic beverages. Those who smoke cannabis also face risk, the measure of which we know less about. I'm familiar with both and have enjoyed them. What bothers me about the arguments made against both is that these are "risks" that are no greater than many other risks we all face, often on a daily basis. Driving your car is a much bigger risk than enjoying wine or cannabis. Who doesn't enjoy sunshine, yet there is risk. It is a false equivalency to try to denigrate one in favor of the other. Of course, your "tool" stands to make a lot of money. Perhaps that seems like a good excuse to her.
I understand that everyone has their own opinions and beliefs about cannabis and alcohol, and I respect those differences. However, I do not agree with your characterization of Kim Rivers as a "tool" or the contents of the post.
While I can see why you may disagree with Ms. Rivers' stance on cannabis versus alcohol, calling her a tool is an ad hominem attack and does not address the substance of her argument. Furthermore, your
characterization of cannabis as simply a means to get "fucked up" is also misguided, as many people use cannabis for medical purposes or to relax without getting intoxicated.
According to a study published in the Journal of Addiction Medicine, states with medical marijuana laws have lower rates of opioid abuse and overdose deaths. Additionally, a 2018 review of studies found
that marijuana is safer than alcohol in terms of physical harm and addiction potential. The National Institute on Drug Abuse also notes that while both drugs can impair judgment and decision-making,
marijuana is less likely to contribute to reckless behavior or accidents compared to alcohol. Furthermore, a 2019 study published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology found that cannabis use was
associated with fewer hospitalizations and lower mortality rates than alcohol use. These studies provide evidence that marijuana is safer than alcohol and should be considered as an alternative for those
who choose not to consume alcohol or reduce their consumption.
Wine with all its cultural and social benefits not to mention taste experiences is most certainly not just “alcohol”. It is probably the most civilising influence the world has known. The challenge it faces today is messaging this in the face of many who have other agendas including the WHO funded by neo prohibitionists. Shame on them!
Well said, as usual, Tom. The line "Cannabis is a gateway to Dorritos" goes down as the line of the day.
I loved That line too!
I am fully on board that Wine is a cultural and gastronomic pleasure, and that denigrating it in comparison to a completely different different product is ridiculous. But I will say that there is more to cannabis than getting “fucked up”. Some of the components of cannabis are very helpful for pain and anxiety, some do not even cause euphoria.
This confrontational attitude that you are pointing out does nothing to make me want to consume more cannabis nor less wine! Nobody better try to take my wine away from me! It is one of my greatest pleasures in life! And I use cannabis, when legal, mostly for pain and anxiety management.
"This confrontational attitude that you are pointing out does nothing to make me want to consume more cannabis"
That's all it takes to make you want to get high? Surely the prospect of enhancing the taste of Doritos would be more impactful on that score.
Haha! But my point which must have been poorly made, is that cannabis is not all about getting high. I don’t use it for that. And you are welcome to my share of Doritos! 😉
Try to touch my stash of Doritos and see what happens...Especially the "Ranch" flavored. But let's be honest, the number of folks that smoke flower or take edibles are taking them to get high. On the other hand, huge numbers of wine drinkers don't drink wine to get drunk. It's just not the same thing.
Oh no you didn’t ! This argument is fully silly. Are the elites who drink wine actually threatened by marijauna ? Are they defensive because that 50 dolllar bag of grass should have been a Jordan Cabernet ? There is so much big money tied up in grapes that everyone should just relax. No one is going broke. Your share of the alcohol industry has taken a bit of a hit of late ( no pun intended ) but I suspect large corporation multiple alcohol alternatives are more to blame.
Have a toke and chill out.
First of all, Todd, it's not "elites" who drink wine. It's the plumber who likes the taste. It's the mother who likes the way it goes with a sunny day. It's the grads student who likes the way it goes with wine. AND, its the wine lover who tastes the wieght of culture and civilization on their tongue when they sip a Bordeaux from a well established and old chateau.
I agree "dengration [sic] marketing" is a shameless way to get what they want, but implying weed is only for "getting fucked up" is wildly out of touch and it detracts from your argument.
Weed has no cultural history? C'mon, you don't think it's been regarded as spiritual in many non-western cultures?
Nobody smokes weed at weddings? I know of a friend who had a weed-only wedding last year.
Weed only enhances dorito-flavor? You've never been comfortably high at a gourmet restaurant and it shows.
Don't fight at their level. Wine is great. Weed is great. Loosen your tie.
Thomas Jefferson said it well. “No nation is drunken where wine is cheap; and none sober, where the dearness of wine substitutes ardent spirits as the common beverage. It is, in truth, the only antidote to the bane of whiskey.”
A great quote. Would you say in some ways the flourishing of American wine culture has reduced “drunkenness” in some ways, insofar as it has flourished and refined some Americans’ tastes?
That's certainly how it is in Europe. France, Italy Spain, Portugal and Germany are wine drinking cultures. But getting soused is rarely seen and greatly discouraged.
I see. That makes sense from what I know. I wonder how wine-centric cultures impact how even hard liquor would be consumed - whether even hard liquor gets consumed more moderately by default
Wine is being challenged because of the "risk" of drinking alcoholic beverages. Those who smoke cannabis also face risk, the measure of which we know less about. I'm familiar with both and have enjoyed them. What bothers me about the arguments made against both is that these are "risks" that are no greater than many other risks we all face, often on a daily basis. Driving your car is a much bigger risk than enjoying wine or cannabis. Who doesn't enjoy sunshine, yet there is risk. It is a false equivalency to try to denigrate one in favor of the other. Of course, your "tool" stands to make a lot of money. Perhaps that seems like a good excuse to her.
I understand that everyone has their own opinions and beliefs about cannabis and alcohol, and I respect those differences. However, I do not agree with your characterization of Kim Rivers as a "tool" or the contents of the post.
While I can see why you may disagree with Ms. Rivers' stance on cannabis versus alcohol, calling her a tool is an ad hominem attack and does not address the substance of her argument. Furthermore, your
characterization of cannabis as simply a means to get "fucked up" is also misguided, as many people use cannabis for medical purposes or to relax without getting intoxicated.
According to a study published in the Journal of Addiction Medicine, states with medical marijuana laws have lower rates of opioid abuse and overdose deaths. Additionally, a 2018 review of studies found
that marijuana is safer than alcohol in terms of physical harm and addiction potential. The National Institute on Drug Abuse also notes that while both drugs can impair judgment and decision-making,
marijuana is less likely to contribute to reckless behavior or accidents compared to alcohol. Furthermore, a 2019 study published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology found that cannabis use was
associated with fewer hospitalizations and lower mortality rates than alcohol use. These studies provide evidence that marijuana is safer than alcohol and should be considered as an alternative for those
who choose not to consume alcohol or reduce their consumption.