Of all the Rambles so far, this has been my favorite. Probably because I identify with much of the discussion, both as a wine marketer and as a wine lover that’s not a Boomer.
I would like to note, the “entire industry” has not walked away from making inexpensive wine more interesting. Both Naked Wines and Firstleaf have done great things to bring up the quality and variety in cheaper wine. Also, the quality of what’s available from the bulk wine market has improved greatly in the time I've been reviewing wine clubs.
Maybe the wine media could spend less time crapping on the companies that are improving the quality of cheap wine, too.
Like many other aging Boomers, I've read (but not been willing to pay for) both Jeff and Tom. As someone who drinks a lot of cheap wine, I can't agree more with what Jeff says; people in other wine-loving countries have a wonderful selection of interesting bottles at price points where all we have on offer is industrial swill -- or, in the immortal words of the late Joe Dressner, "spoofulated" wine. Thanks for what you've written, Jeff.
One of the most important interviews I've read on wine as I learn more about the industry. Thank you Tom, and thank you, Jeff. I can only say I was shocked by the headline, that Jeff was "retiring." After reading the piece, I'm shocked you hung in for as long as you did. Here's to inexpensive good wine and a hope that they're not just the good old days. Blessings and Happy Holidays.
I wish more of the "right people" would read this. What would happen, as a thought experience, if land value and wine were no longer considered interchangeable? And wine as a liquid was no longer a tangible and insurable *asset.*
Has wine grown at such a high value with such a ridiculous entry point because the land value is so high? Therefore, these wine modules have had to raise the bar, the experience, and the "perception of wine." We know that this is the answer, but what happens when the demand for agriculture shifts or the value of grapes can no longer sustain the debt that is incurred when consolidation happens at the ever-quickening pace? What's next? Jeff and Tom address the slow demise that is coming...
Jeff commented, "So nuts to them. I have my La Vieille rose, my Gascon, Spanish, and Sicilian whites, and my d'Abruzzo and Spanish reds. All cost less than $12, all are terrific and food friendly, and all are fun."
Why are you leaving us, Jeff? Gen Z is importing and experimenting with European wines due to their affordable nature! What if Gen Z gives the finger to the über expensive producers and the European market dominates the US over time? They will need your voice to guide their buying decisions.
I'm 41, and I absolutely pay $100 to go to the Opera and take in the "arts." However, I recognize that my best friend and I are the only two people in our friend group who enjoy it and look forward to our "geriatric dinner hour" followed by a show, LOL.
Ironically, I don't have the budget or income to drink the wines that I represent. Therefore, I have been migrating to European varietals because I also disagree that $40 is affordable even though that is what I've been surrounded by...
Great conversation, with lots of great points from both Jeff and Tom.
The only question I'd throw at both Tom and Jeff is whether good, interesting, lower-priced wine isn't an endangered species in any case, because of the costs of production + need for critical mass.
In any case, with regard to Jeff, to judge by the quality of what he writes for Meininger's International (of which I am associate editor) he's still in peak writing form, even if he's given up being a wine critic (which I also did, way back in 2005)
This is a great question, Robert. I unfortunatley cannot answer it. 1) I don't have the best figures in front of me as to the various costs. Also, I'd have to give some thought to what "good" and "interesting" means to someone who is buying a $10 bottle of wine. Jeff has likely written about this issue over the years.
Re" "Death of the wine media" In Australia I subscribed to Gourmet Traveller Wine for years. The parent company, GT still exists. It sold off it's wine arm and the publication folded without notice. I tried for months to get an answer. In the end, GT gave me a cookbook as part compensation.
I think a trick is being missed - more than ever in the drinks business we need someone to shout out " the king is not wearing any clothes" - the idea that prestige is defined by price is a pityfully inadequate approach . No one points the finger on the extraordinary excess of posturing- as a result not a surprise that the ship is sinking - its full of a whole lot of crock !
Jonathan...Certainly something is defined or indicated by the price of a wine, if not prestige (though that word is a little too imprecise unless we define it down). The secondary market for wines certainly tells us something about the desirability of a wine. Additionally, Napa wines priced at $350 on release that sell out upon release tells us something about the demand for the wine, but of course this too is complicate by the wine's supply. My only point is that, it's not that the emperor has not clothes. It's that some kings and vassals are dressed rather shabbily, while others really do have very fine garments.
An added comment to below comments - increased production cost of course exists but relative to inflated price is virtually negligible . Actually In much high priced product,the packaging costs more than the production cost of the product . Very noticeable in expensive Spirits -
That ‘woman’ Jeff mentions in Tom's interview contributes more to the wine industry than any man he calls out as having ‘made it’ in the wine industry. That ‘woman’ inspires many writers to learn more about their craft, to embrace education, and to learn by doing. The French wine industry took note and proposed a formal certification process because of it, and yet Jeff and others like you balk at the evolution of moving wine writing forward in North America.
Of all the Rambles so far, this has been my favorite. Probably because I identify with much of the discussion, both as a wine marketer and as a wine lover that’s not a Boomer.
I would like to note, the “entire industry” has not walked away from making inexpensive wine more interesting. Both Naked Wines and Firstleaf have done great things to bring up the quality and variety in cheaper wine. Also, the quality of what’s available from the bulk wine market has improved greatly in the time I've been reviewing wine clubs.
Maybe the wine media could spend less time crapping on the companies that are improving the quality of cheap wine, too.
Like many other aging Boomers, I've read (but not been willing to pay for) both Jeff and Tom. As someone who drinks a lot of cheap wine, I can't agree more with what Jeff says; people in other wine-loving countries have a wonderful selection of interesting bottles at price points where all we have on offer is industrial swill -- or, in the immortal words of the late Joe Dressner, "spoofulated" wine. Thanks for what you've written, Jeff.
One of the most important interviews I've read on wine as I learn more about the industry. Thank you Tom, and thank you, Jeff. I can only say I was shocked by the headline, that Jeff was "retiring." After reading the piece, I'm shocked you hung in for as long as you did. Here's to inexpensive good wine and a hope that they're not just the good old days. Blessings and Happy Holidays.
I love this format and ramble.
I wish more of the "right people" would read this. What would happen, as a thought experience, if land value and wine were no longer considered interchangeable? And wine as a liquid was no longer a tangible and insurable *asset.*
Has wine grown at such a high value with such a ridiculous entry point because the land value is so high? Therefore, these wine modules have had to raise the bar, the experience, and the "perception of wine." We know that this is the answer, but what happens when the demand for agriculture shifts or the value of grapes can no longer sustain the debt that is incurred when consolidation happens at the ever-quickening pace? What's next? Jeff and Tom address the slow demise that is coming...
Jeff commented, "So nuts to them. I have my La Vieille rose, my Gascon, Spanish, and Sicilian whites, and my d'Abruzzo and Spanish reds. All cost less than $12, all are terrific and food friendly, and all are fun."
Why are you leaving us, Jeff? Gen Z is importing and experimenting with European wines due to their affordable nature! What if Gen Z gives the finger to the über expensive producers and the European market dominates the US over time? They will need your voice to guide their buying decisions.
I'm 41, and I absolutely pay $100 to go to the Opera and take in the "arts." However, I recognize that my best friend and I are the only two people in our friend group who enjoy it and look forward to our "geriatric dinner hour" followed by a show, LOL.
Ironically, I don't have the budget or income to drink the wines that I represent. Therefore, I have been migrating to European varietals because I also disagree that $40 is affordable even though that is what I've been surrounded by...
I love this article! Thank you!! Jeff Siegel
Great conversation, with lots of great points from both Jeff and Tom.
The only question I'd throw at both Tom and Jeff is whether good, interesting, lower-priced wine isn't an endangered species in any case, because of the costs of production + need for critical mass.
In any case, with regard to Jeff, to judge by the quality of what he writes for Meininger's International (of which I am associate editor) he's still in peak writing form, even if he's given up being a wine critic (which I also did, way back in 2005)
This is a great question, Robert. I unfortunatley cannot answer it. 1) I don't have the best figures in front of me as to the various costs. Also, I'd have to give some thought to what "good" and "interesting" means to someone who is buying a $10 bottle of wine. Jeff has likely written about this issue over the years.
Re" "Death of the wine media" In Australia I subscribed to Gourmet Traveller Wine for years. The parent company, GT still exists. It sold off it's wine arm and the publication folded without notice. I tried for months to get an answer. In the end, GT gave me a cookbook as part compensation.
I think a trick is being missed - more than ever in the drinks business we need someone to shout out " the king is not wearing any clothes" - the idea that prestige is defined by price is a pityfully inadequate approach . No one points the finger on the extraordinary excess of posturing- as a result not a surprise that the ship is sinking - its full of a whole lot of crock !
Jonathan...Certainly something is defined or indicated by the price of a wine, if not prestige (though that word is a little too imprecise unless we define it down). The secondary market for wines certainly tells us something about the desirability of a wine. Additionally, Napa wines priced at $350 on release that sell out upon release tells us something about the demand for the wine, but of course this too is complicate by the wine's supply. My only point is that, it's not that the emperor has not clothes. It's that some kings and vassals are dressed rather shabbily, while others really do have very fine garments.
An added comment to below comments - increased production cost of course exists but relative to inflated price is virtually negligible . Actually In much high priced product,the packaging costs more than the production cost of the product . Very noticeable in expensive Spirits -
That ‘woman’ Jeff mentions in Tom's interview contributes more to the wine industry than any man he calls out as having ‘made it’ in the wine industry. That ‘woman’ inspires many writers to learn more about their craft, to embrace education, and to learn by doing. The French wine industry took note and proposed a formal certification process because of it, and yet Jeff and others like you balk at the evolution of moving wine writing forward in North America.